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Fly2High
70 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2006 : 6:43:43 PM
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I am looking to gather information to ascertain the possibility for the LISF to host a HLG contest. The club will use this information to vote on hosting one. They asked me to find out the following:
Are most ESL HLG contests DLG, javelin or both?
If javelin is mixed with discus, can there be a handicapping system to level the field?
What are the rules for a HLG contest that the ESL uses?
Who would be interested in coming to this contest?
What kind of manpower is needed to host one?(comments from volunteers deeply desired)
Are there certain tasks required by the ESL or can it vary per round?
(Example 10 min window with 4 flights of 1,2,3, and 4 mins followed by a round containing 4 - 2min flights in an 8 min window, etc.)
I got the Torrey Pine task list from the Files section of Allegro Lite group already.
Any additional info you feel LISF might need would be appreciated.
Thank you very much for any info you can offer.
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Phil Barnes
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 8:58:39 PM
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Your biggest problem may be finding an open date on the ESL schedule. Generally you are suposed to send a representative to the end of season ESL contest to get a contest added to the schedule. That is where/when the schedule is set. I'm not sure how well this "rule" is enforced lately. Most people are happy enough to see a new contest that some rules may be allowed to slide. But like I said, there may be no place to put a new contest at this point this year. Take a look at the calendar for 2006 and if you see a place you think you can put a contest let me know and maybe copy Tom Kiesling who I guess is listed as the contest coordinator:
http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp
calendar
kiesling@ctc.com
Tom Kiesling
HL contests do not specify javeline versus discus launch so everybody discus launches since it gets the model two or three times higher than javeline launching. there is nothing to stop a club from hosting a contest that has a separate division for javeline launching with separate awards although for ESL end of season points I think the results would be reported as single division.
Rules are here:
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=134
scroll down a bit for HL rules.
I don't know who would come. How many LISF guys would fly? I would try to make any HL contest as some other hard core HL guys would. the sooner you set up a contest and start advertising the better your chances of drawing people.
To run a small contest you need a person to do scorekeeping. Maybe one other helper would be nice. You would need to get some scorekeeping software from someone. You would need to get a copy of a round timing CD and have a way to play it with big speekers on the field. Your best bet would be to attend the BASS HL the first weekend in may and see how a HL contest is run.
You can whatever tasks you like. The Torrey Pines list is a good resource. Here are some others:
http://olgol.com/
click on the contest links and then the task lists or other items of interest
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=96
HL forum with tons of information
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451110
This thread will give some idea what happens at a HL contest and especially how to promote one.
The best thing you can do is surf around the HL: forum and attemnd a contest or two and get up to speed on how contests are run.
By the way, who are you? Your screen name reveals nothing about your identity. Maybe I know you.
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Edited by - Phil Barnes on 02/22/2006 9:00:01 PM |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 10:52:31 PM
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Who am I?
I am the contest helper,
the inquisitive timer,
the one who steals the treasures of knowledge any chance he can.
In the morning , I help raise structures only to take them down at dusk.
When a winch is not allowed, I pull some of your planes up by hand, at least I did in '99.
Over the last 9 years, I attend most our contests just to lend a helping hand and only recently to compete.
To seal my fate (and maybe yours as well) I shall reveal that often I am the outdoor chef!!!
Of course we all knew that we could just click on the name to the right to reveal my identity, I just figured this was more fun.
It's Frank (Nisita)
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 11:18:52 PM
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Thanks for the info Phil. If we need to have the HLG contest next year that will be fine. I will only be more prepared by then to do so. I did not want to make any move into expressing my desire for a HLG contest until I got the go ahead by the club to gather more information. Nothing is set in stone yet. The club has asked me to bring to the next meeting all my information so we may vote on it. If in the eyes of the AMA and ESL I am elegible, I am even willing to complete the AMA's CD exam and do whatever else it takes to host the contest as well. There are a few guys in our club that have expressed interest in HLG and we have had a few very informal HLG club contests. I would like to promote any interest our club has in HLG and this might be a good way to do it.
Thanks again |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 11:34:24 PM
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Since there are multiple tasks per round, how do the timers keep track of each task?
Is it cumulative time or what? I wouldn't think so. For a round requiring a 1,2,3 and 4 min tasks, what would happen if you went over time for a task?
Does each task start with a throw and end by contact with a ground based object or a catch?
Is a fancy stopwatch required or will pen and paper do to record each flight's duration? |
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kiesling
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 12:59:20 PM
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Frank,
Most timers use a stop watch for the task time and a countdown timer to monitor the window time. The window clock is optional.
The clock starts at the release of the throw and stops when the pilot touches a ground based object (including themselves). The timer will memorize the time on the watch, clear it and start it when the pilot throws again. Once the pilot has launched they will write the flight time down. So nothing fancy is required, but as a timer you do have to be paying attention.
For your example of the 1,2,3 and 4 minute task, you get a point per second up to the target time. If you go over your target time, there is no penalty other than you use up window time you could be using to complete the other tasks. So if the 1,2,3 and 4 tasks is flown in a 10 minute window, you will loose the time it takes to launch. So a typical good score is 593 seconds or so with the 7 seconds lost to turn around time. I have a slow turn around time so I typically get around 587-590+. For tasks with no extra time in the window, you want to land a second or two early so you don't have any dead time.
The ladder tasks (increasing times by usually 15 seconds) are usually scored differently. These tasks usually score one point for each step of the ladder.
Most contests will provide a task sheet describing the tasks for each round. So while it is a little overwhelming at first, you can quickly get the hang of it. HL contests are much more demanding on the timer than a TD contest.
Your best bet is to go to one and see what it is all about in person.
Tom
Tom |
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Phil Barnes
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 6:29:12 PM
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Frank
I did not know that you could click on the user name and get the user's profile. Also it requires you to log in to get that information so it would be far easier if users who have obscure user names could sign their posts. That way even people not registered with ESL could know who you are also. And, yes, I do know you from my many trips to Long Island. |
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Phil Barnes
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 6:51:04 PM
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I agree with Tom. You really should attend some HL contests this season. We can type till we're blue in the fingers and you still won't get a good idea of what a HL contest is like. Fly in one ESL HL contest and you'll be completely up to speed.
For your club meeting you guys should just decide to run an ESL HL contest next (2007)season. The CRRC guys really need another HL contest closer to them so I'm sure that they would support your contest in good numbers. You should also talk, at your next club meeting, about commiting to attending some ESL contests this season. If a group of LISF HL enthusiasts were to start showing up at some ESL HL contests it would be a great thing. We could use the new blood and we are very newbie freindly. You should read the stuff about the Polecat challenge HL contest. I gave you the link in my earlier post. Look through that and you will see what I mean about the newbie freindly nature of ESl HL contests. Denny really talks up his contest. The other contests aren't as good about the advertisement and promotion as Denny but all of the contests are similar.
Frank, you would be fine as a contest director. If you go through the AMA and obtain official CD status so much the better. If you don't get that then I'm sure someone in LISF has AMA CD status and could handle the official AMA stuff. There isn't much official about the ESL. We mostly just show up and have fun. You being one of the hard core helper types at the LISF contests are certainly fully qualified to run a HL contest. As far as knowing what the heck to do about tasks and scoring at a HL contest is concerned, well thats why we say attend at least a couple ESL HL contests in the 2006 season and you will be up to speed. The only real local talent you need from your own club is with scoring and I know you guys have some of the best scoring people in your club. Their so good we even recruited them to do scoring at the end of season ESL contest last year. There are some minor new things to learn as far as HL scoring goes but that would be no big deal to learn.
Please ask more questions. I don't mind typing answers and my fingers don't really turn blue unless I have to answer the same question for about the fifth time. So far you've been asking new questions and you really have my interest since you are talking about new blood for the HL contests. |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 6:55:33 PM
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Is the scorekeeping software the same software we use for our ESL unlimited thermal duration contests?
If it is not, where can I get it? |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 7:03:23 PM
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Actually, I am planning on attending at least one ESL HLG contest this year I just haven't decided on which. I have spoken to Tom and John in email and/or on phone about them and will need to see as to when they are and how to work them into my schedule. I was hoping to go to the Pa contet in June but the 17th is my wife's bithday. Hmmmmm what a dilemma. Spend time with the love of my life or ... with my wife on her birthday. Hard choice. Just joking. (she reads these forums too sometimes.)
I'll tell her I will take her away for her birthday (to Pa) now how to make this happen...
Can't say too much with the WRAM show thia weekend, she controls the bank account!! |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 7:21:51 PM
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With the info all of you are giving me, at the very least I will try to make our club contests more ESL like and who knows how many might want to go on to trying the other ESL HLG contests. This way, even if we do not host one this year, we will be prepared to do so.
I know there is alot of envy see towards Paul's new DLG. My hope is to get those who are afraid of throwing a HLG to see what kind of strain it imparts on a person to do DLG. Everyone likes the height DLgs get it is just the cost of diving into a new aspect of the hobby only to find out that they are unable to do it adequately.
Here's an idea. If anyone has an old DLG, maybe they could bring it to the various ESL contets for people to try out to see if it is something they might like to try. This might even make a good topic for the Saturday clinic.
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raschow
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 5:16:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fly2High
Is the scorekeeping software the same software we use for our ESL unlimited thermal duration contests?
If it is not, where can I get it?
I have used it to help Phil with our CASA HLG contests, it works quite well. Good Lift!
Good Lift! |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 11:12:22 PM
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I would like to inform the members of the ESL of the current status of the desire for the LISF to host a HLG contest.
Tonight at our March meeting it was voted to go to the ESL with a request of a date to host such an event, if the ESL will allow us to do so. I will keep everyone up to date as the status for this contest unfolds.
I would like to thank everyone with their assistance in this matter.
Sincerely,
Frank Nisita |
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drela@mit.edu
12 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 10:16:06 PM
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Frank,
I can help you set up the scoring spreadsheet. I have one from the last CRRC HLG contest which I'd use as a starting point. It's as simple as possible to minimize the chance of screwups.
At CRRC HLG I had the Sportsmen and Experts fly in separate rounds, just like you guys do at the LISF contests. The Experts then time for the Sportsmen and vice versa. I think this works pretty well, but it does require a comparable number of people in each category. Or some sort of nice ratio like 1:2 or 2:3.
It is possible to be the CD, scorer, and also fly in the contest, since I do it every year. But it does make for a hectic day. Having a co-CD to run the show while you're flying would make this easier and very doable. Since I would certainly attend a LISF HLG contest, I'll volunteer to be the co-CD.
Mark Drela |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 6:45:07 PM
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I am proud to announce to all the members of the ESL that the registration for the Long Island HL Classic is now open.
I would like to thank the members of the ESL board for their past present and future support, Tom Kiesling and Phil Barnes for their words of wisdom and Mark Drela for his support and offer to co CD the event.
I would also like to express my gratitude for the support of the LISF for without it this competition would never come to fuition.
Thank you one and all. I will work hard to make this contest a success and be enjoyed by all in attendance, pilots and spectators alike.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Frank Nisita |
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Fly2High
70 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2006 : 07:31:57 AM
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this was reposted from rcgroups:
'Long Island's Rock and Roll You Chuck 'Em, You Case 'Em Hand Lauch Contest'
Hi all
I want to thank all the pilots who came to our first hand lauch contest. Without your support it would not have been as successful as it was. I would like to send out a special thanks to my co - CD, Mark Drela who guided me through this process, supplied expert knowledge in its handling, gave me the scoring spreadsheets and gave a fantastic clinic that touched on every facet of the sport anyone could think of. I know the information was appreciated by all that attended and will deeply affect their abilities in the future for a long time to come. Everyone at LISF thanks for your support.
Thank you Mark.
I would also like to thank Tom Keisling and Phil Barnes and Jose Bruzal and the entire ESL board of directors for their support, and encouragement. Without all of you, I wouldn't have had the nerve to go through with it. Thank you one and all. Know that with your help, I will continue to use that knowledge to have the contest many more times to come. So many new faces came out and thoroughly enjoyed this form of competition and expressed desires to build/buy DLGs in the near future.
I must say that on the first day I was terrified standing in front of the pilots in attendance. It took a lot of guts for me to come to each of the people that I asked for help and guidance to have this contest. I have seen all of you fly for so many years at the unlimited contests at LISF that it has caused me to have a lot of respect and admiration for you all. When Phil offered to help me at Polecat, I thought I was going to turn to butter and melt on the spot! Here is the man that I've probably pestered time and again for knowledge on flying and building for many years and he wants to give me a private lesson at this presigeous contest! I couldn't believe it. I was deeply honored. The same thing is true when Mark offered to co -CD my event and when he helped me with my launching a DLG at CRRC. I was flabergasted!!! All I could think about was that not only will I have a great pilot and builder but a fantastic designer and he wants to help out ME! This was someone who I could say I and so many others idolize for his abilities both on and off the flight line. Mark you trully are the complete Sailplane pilot covering all facets of the hobby/sport. A true Rennaissance Man. All of you are , in the eyes of all of us, the superstars of sailplane piloting.
I would also like to thank Denny Maize and his family for their support and encouragement. This is trully a man that even without having met, I have come to respect. He went out of his way to surprise my wife at his contest and was in full support to come to mine. He offered on numerous times sage advice and wisdom from his years at holding so many successful events. He and his family trully makes you feel like you are a member of their family. Denny and family, you certainly are now a part of mine. We can not do enough to thank you and your family for all you have done.
Lastly, I would like to thank the members of the LISF for supporting me with my off the wall ideas and help me to make this a success for all who came. It is only with their support that this contest became a success. Thanks to Ed for supplying power both in spirit and in electrons, Rich V. and my wife Sara for scorekeeping and assisting in the field when it was deeply needed and thier wittie commentary that trully lifted the spirits and the laughter (even if it often was at my or Ed's expense), Phil for spending 2 days in the sun doing anything and everything that was needed at a moments notice, Rudi for taking pictures to document this event and it success, Rich W. for constant encouragement and setup and maintenance both days, Peter for bringing the drinks and setup (and being the last man to speck out a javelin Chup!) and all the guys in the LISF that have helped along the way. It is because of all of you that we are able to put on so amnysuccessful contests each year and now this one can be added to that list.
Thank you all for allowing my dream of having a handl launch contest on Long Island come true.
I hope to see many more faces at next year's
'Long Island's Rock and Roll You Chuck 'Em, You Case 'Em Hand Lauch Contest'
(For those that missed it on Sunday we added a little background music to the contest! Rich Verriest came up with the name. Thanks Rich!!)
Till next year....
Sincerely,
Frank Nisita
Next year there will be point deducted for hitting the CD in the back of the head and dive bomding his tents!!!
You know who I speak of...
you all have been warned....
Till Next Time...
Keep Chuckin 'Em and Chasin 'Em !!! |
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LISF possible HLG contest - info needed
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